Wayne Grudem on President Bush

First I would like to say that the scriptures plainly state in Romans chapter 13 that all who are in authority are ordained of God to be so. Rather they be of God or Not. According to President Bush fruit and own words he is not a “true” Christian. He plainly stated on national TV a couple of times that he believes all religions lead to God when Jesus said in John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

In regards to the True Christian position on voting and our role in politics the scriptures are clear we are not to endorse or support sin in any form. Please hold on before you label me as some sort of heretic or crazy. Let me present the evidence through scripture, which is the final authority on any matter for the believer.

The Holy Scriptures says in 2 Corinthians 4:4 that Satan is the god of this world.

The “true” born-again believer is NOT TO BE PARTAKERS OF OTHER MEN SINS and keep ourselves pure as stated in 1Timothy 5:22.

Proverbs 17:15 says: He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even THEY BOTH are abomination to the LORD.

In regards to politics (the activities and affairs of a government) in order for a Christian to not be a partaker of this world political system sins they MUST not endorse (give approval or support to) this present day Babylonian system wickedness.

The true Christian ONLY biblical role in politics (the activities and affairs of a government) is to pray for those in authority of this earthly kingdom regardless of who they are: that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour. The Sovereign God gives kingdoms to even the abase of men for His Sovereign purpose. The Holy Scriptures declare that God is the origin of power, and the supreme Governor of the universe, he delegates authority to whomsoever he will; and though in many cases the governor himself may not be of God (George W. Bush, Nebuchadnezzar, Pharaoh, Bill Clinton, Herod, Saddam Hussein, Adolph Hitler etc).

This world’s system is ungodly no matter how many outwardly “good things” IT SEEMS TO DO. It does not reverence, obey, neither fear the True and Living God of all creation. It purposely, continuously, and blatantly dishonors the name of the Holy God and is fit for the recompense of its “ERRORS” promised to them that endorse and support its wickedness. Eternal Hellsfire unless they repent of their wickedness.

ALL persons who hold a political office whether they confess to be a Christian or not inevitably compromise a matter. For a “true Christian” if this compromise is contrary to the spiritual and lawful duties to God this person just willfully sinned violating the laws of God and conscience. (It is better to obey God then men).

Matters such as promoting evil and supporting wickedness: abortion, same sex marriage, civil union, covetousness, idolatry, inventors of evil things, fornication, adultery, lying, oppression of the poor, endorsing other religions as another way to the Father, and calling evil good and good evil.

1 John 3:7-8 LET NO MAN DECIEVE YOU: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Through vain deceit of man’s earthly wisdom (philosophy) mixed with truths of Christianity many are taken captive in believing lies of not only politicians but many false teachers and prophets masquerading as angels of light, that are scattering God’s sheep today feeding themselves and ruining the flock.

LET YOUR VOTE BE FOR KING JESUS. Repent (turn from sin), Invite Jesus Christ in your life and believe the Gospel unto the saving of the soul.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye RECEIVE NOT OF HER PLAGUES.

Christians are to come out of this present day Babylonian system devoted to destruction and go forth looking to Jesus the author and finisher of the believer’s faith. Being doers of His word and not hearers only deceiving your own self. Denying yourself and taking up your cross daily and follow Jesus, being conformed to His image.

Do not get so entangled into the cares of this world were as you become unfruitful. Set your mind on things above looking forward to the new heaven and new earth and live accordingly. Wicked men hearts CAN ONLY BE CHANGED by the renewing of the Holy Spirit. As a Christian we are to live holy before God and go forth in keeping to the great commission of preaching the Gospel and teaching men to observe ALL of Jesus commands.

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Bondservant of the Lord Jesus Christ,
William Taylor Sr.
www.actioncross.net

(Read my article on True Christians at my website)

I don't know about Bush's faith (and I for one am no judge) but I do kow that he is NOT a conservative and therefore I will not be voting this year. The republicans are a joke.

William, you are making a bold claim: Christians should not be involved in politics beyond praying for those in authority above us.

I appreciate your call to keep as our main focus the Kingdom of Heaven, but after examining scriptures, we find many examples of godly men in political positions (Melchizadek, David - chosen by God for that role, Moses, Josiah, etc), so I am confident that your conclusion about the Christian's role in politics is completely wrong.

"ALL persons who hold a political office whether they confess to be a Christian or not inevitably compromise a matter."

Why do you say this? You go on to list a number of immoral positions a government might promote, but why must a Christian politician compromise on those issues? This is exactly the reason we should be involved in politics - so that we have politicians who won't make those compromises!

Your arguments seem to apply equally well to other earthly pursuits - should Christians avoid the business world as your post would seem to suggest, or should they engage in business in a manner that glorifies God - free from corruption and moral compromise?

Hello Erik, Here are the answers to the good questions you posted to me.

"ALL persons who hold a political office whether they confess to be a Christian or not inevitably compromise a matter."

William: Why do you say this?

The reason I say this is stated in the rest of the same paragraph and next: “For a true Christian if this compromise IS CONTRARY to the spiritual and lawful duties to God this person just WILLFULLY SINNED violating the laws of God and conscience. (It is better to obey God then men).”

“Matters such as promoting evil and supporting wickedness: abortion, same sex marriage, civil union, covetousness, idolatry, inventors of evil things, fornication, adultery, lying, oppression of the poor, endorsing other religions as another way to the Father, and calling evil good and good evil.”

Now name for me please one present, pass, or current political office holder/ legislator that profess to be a “Christian” and have not compromised on one of the above abominations or wickedness before God.

As you have pointed out you can find Godly men in the Old Testament that God called to politics. What is not pointed out is the fact that if any of these men would have died WILLFULLY compromising or disobeying the laws and/or the commands of God according to scripture they would have not inherited the kingdom of God unless they repented.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the full true knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour those who oppose.

Heb 10:28 Anyone who rejected Moses' Law dies without mercy before two or three witnesses.

Heb 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled on the Son of God, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of Grace?

In Psalms 51 David asked God to blot out all of his iniquities and create in him a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. And then he would teach transgressors the Lord ways.

The three Hebrew boys didn’t bow down to the government and for this was THROWN IN THE FIRE and the Lord delivered them.

Dan 3:27 And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.

Dan 3:28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

Dan 3:29 THEREFORE I MAKE A DECREE, THAT EVERY PEOPLE, NATION, AND LANGUAGE, WHICH SPEAK ANYTHING AMISS AGAINST THE GOD of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort.

Dan 3:30 Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, in the province of Babylon.

This present day political system purposely, continuously, and blatantly dishonors the name of the Holy God. This is why Jesus has commanded us as New Testament believers to come out from among them.

“Why must a Christian politician compromise on those issues?”

Actually a “Christian” politician automatically compromises on the issues when they join, support, and endorse one of these political parties. In most cases they actually take an oath stating so. The scriptures says how can two walk together unless they agree.

Please read this article: Christians, Oaths, Political Office and the Scripture by Rory O Moore at: http://www.apostasywatch.com/special/christiansoathsoffice.html

“Your arguments seem to apply equally well to other earthly pursuits”

Earthly Pursuits…I have owned and operated a business with up to twenty-two employees for eleven years free from corruption and moral compromise but came to the realization and knowledge that “I” did not have the time to do what the Lord had impressed upon my heart to do as part of His body. Praise the name of Jesus a door was open for me to close the business in 1998 and now I am able to take up my cross daily and follow Him and still provide for my family through His daily provisions.
If a Christian can engage in business in a manner that glorifies God - free from corruption and moral compromise and continue to put God first then glory to God.

Bondservant of the Lord Jesus Christ,
Brother William
www.actioncross.net

“Matters such as promoting evil and supporting wickedness: abortion, same sex marriage, civil union, covetousness, idolatry, inventors of evil things, fornication, adultery, lying, oppression of the poor, endorsing other religions as another way to the Father, and calling evil good and good evil.”

Now name for me please one present, pass, or current political office holder/ legislator that profess to be a “Christian” and have not compromised on one of the above abominations or wickedness before God.

---

William, I think there are a number of politicians who have not compromised on these issues, except in as far as they, like all men, have sinned. But nothing is different about politics here - a teacher, engineer, or bricklayer may just as easily call evil good and good evil, or covet! You really haven't done anything to explain why politics is special in this regard - we must *all* avoid compromise and willful sinning! What is it about politics that corrupts more than other occupations?

Or is there a large set of occupations that you feel are inappropriate for Christians? You mentioned that you were called to close your business and go into a particular ministry, but you indicate that it may be ok for other Christians to be involved in business... why not politics? The business world is full of corruption as well, what is special about the temptation that a politician would face?

If you think all of the politicians representing you are corrupt, that is all the more reason to run! I would much rather have you, William, as my representative than one of the people corrupted by these lobbying scandals or supporting legal abortions, etc.

In the US, which is a representative democracy, we have an awesome responsibility and obligation. You mentioned earlier that all in authority are ordained of God to be so - well, here that is *us* - at least those of us who are citizens and can vote. It is absolutely unacceptable to shirk this responsibility. If we do, then we are responsiblile for the resulting corruption.

If the only thing holding you back is the required oath, it appears you can say "I affirm that I will support the constitution and carry out my duties, blah blah" - what is wrong with affirming this? Making a statement that you will perform these duties? This doesn't violate any of Jesus' commands.

The logic and scripture in your post seem to support the assertion that "we should not go into politics and be corrupted," not the assertion that we should not go into politics at all. Much less do nothing but pray.

"As you have pointed out you can find Godly men in the Old Testament that God called to politics. What is not pointed out is the fact that if any of these men would have died WILLFULLY compromising or disobeying the laws and/or the commands of God according to scripture they would have not inherited the kingdom of God unless they repented."

I agree completely - but this has nothing to do with their participation in politics. And we are still left with the fact that God called David to his position - this clearly says to me that it is not inherently wrong for believers to be politicians.

Alex,

Much as it pains me to disagree with Wayne Grudem, who's a nice guy, he paints President Bush in such an impossibly rosy glow that one wonders what planet he is living on. I find his article deeply worrying: there is not even an attempt to evaluate Bush from a purely objective point of view. It's absolutely extraordinary. The premise seems to be that Bush is (allegedly) a Christian, so he can do no wrong! Tony Blair is allegedly a Christian too: that doesn't exempt him from robust criticism. There is much about Blair's government that worries us as well. (Some of their domestic policies have been good for the country, but they are SUCH a bunch of control freaks.)

Personally, I think the Bush administration is as riddled with corruption as Clinton's. I think his foreign and domestic policies have been disastrous for the USA. Many Britons regard Blair as Bush's poodle, kow-towing to the USA because it suits the British sense of hubris to be seen as a secondary power in league with the world's only superpower. I think the war in Iraq has been a messy, dreadful, horrendously handled affair which has cost thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, and hundreds of British and American soldiers, their lives. Saddam was a monster, but this is a war that Britain and America went into, basically not having a CLUE about how it would turn out. Iraq continues to teeter on the brink of civil war. And five years on from 9/11, Osama bin Ladin is STILL out there!! This is a hollow victory. The war on terror is going to be around for a long time yet.

There are many things I admire about American Christians: your zeal for evangelism, your love of robust theology, your 'get up and go' spirit, etc etc etc.

But this conflation of conservative theology with right-wing, neo-con politics is genuinely dismaying to see.

I honestly think that it sends out the wrong signals and does serious harm to credible evangelical witness, because it blurs the line between church and state.

Trust me, I'd be saying exactly the same thing if Bush was a Democrat. I don't think Christians should be partisan about this. If a Christian President's policies go wrong, let's call a spade a spade. No so-called Christian President should be sanctioning torture.

Will pray for your great nation at the polls today!

PS. Like Erik, I have no theological or moral objection to Christians who feel called to political office. It's a difficult path, in this corrupt old world, and of course we should pray for them.